03
Feb
09

010209 PJ Candle light vigil – sbotted.

After Thoughts:

Here’s a question or an idea for the current Home Minister & Top Officers of PDRM who tries to shut down civil society activities like Anti-ISA vigils:

HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING – “what IF/WHEN PR takes government… & a fanatic new Home Minister, who had previously been detained & treated unfairly, decided to abuse the ISA & round up politicians, and round up CPOs, OCPDs DSPs to Kamunting…

will that be ok?…

We (the anti-ISA vigillers) believe that we will still hold Anti-ISA demos & vigils for these new detainees, regardless of whether we like them or not…. every one deserve a day in court…. THAT’s the difference between a biased political movement & one like ours – by genuine Anak Bangsa Malaysia who believe in fighting for justice & rights”

Think about that, officers.

_____________________________________________________________________

festive but lone candle this week...

This post took a while to complete…. why? delCapo has been processing  thoughts for the past 24 hours after our latest PJ Candle-light vigil…

Serious thoughts….

How serious? well…. had to cancel a promised night of CNY cards session with my buddies (thousand apologies once again to those “lost souls”)…. even missed watching my beloved Liverpool’s win over Chelsea “live” on TV (dammit!)…

All because of the “SBotted” session…

First of all…. what happened:

delCapo decided to be festive about the night & created a CNY candle…. couldn’t help but noticed I was the only one who lighted up though… whats a candle-light vigil without candles??? come on, people!!

festive but lone candle this week...
festive but lone candle this week…

The crowd started to gather just as the SBs & PDRM troops were marching in too…

2_s

Before we know it, we were surrounded (nothing new)…. and orders were given for us to disperse from the “illegal assembly”… this time without the shouting over a loudspeaker though. Noted on the nicer approach.

A brief exchange of words whereby we, once again, tried to explain our case on why it was NOT an illegal assembly.

Like previous weeks, we agreed to disagree with the officers.

Haris led us with a round of Negaraku… & we made our way out of the Civic Centre grounds under the watch of the officers, SBs & FRU battalions.

34_s

We gathered at Lotus across the road for our usual friendly chats….

5_s

Previously, the officers would just watch us from across the road. This time, they actually approached us within Lotus grounds & again, ordered us to disperse (led by DSP Ong)….. when persuasion failed, the FRU was called in to surround Lotus.

6_s7_s

Another round of discussion to ask why were they harrasing a bunch of peaceful people gathering for a cause without any threat to peace & without any unlawful agendas.

10_s

Finally…. we decided to proceed with makan at lotus…. as it was obvious that the officers were not going to agree to our reasoning. Well, perhaps they were not in position to agree with us.

9_s

more coverage of “what happened” by Whisperer, KKitSam, SanJiun, Rakyat@ Work on AnilNetto and Paradise Storm.

Pat Lu of Pahlawan Volunteers has a great post & videos on MT

So what was so different about this night from previous “similar” nights?

This time… delCapo decided to do some serious SBotting…. sitting down with DSP Ong & have a serious chat after most people had left. PJ councillor Richard joined delCapo and 2 others with DSP Ong).

The objective of the conversation, for delCapo anyway, was to find out what were the reasons theat led to to a weekly gathering of peaceful vigillers being on top of PJ’s finest officers’ “to do list” every Sunday night…. & more importantly, IF there’s any way of us doing it in anyway which will stop them from paying us so much attention (other than genuinely wanting to join in personally) and thus, saving precious law enforcement manhours.

During the solid 1 hour of discussions…. many topics were raised & debated…. including:

  • law enforcement duties and  civil rights.
  • the need for a permit for peaceful gathering on private grounds, approved by the land owner (Selangor State government and PJ council)
  • image of PDRM
  • the rise of educated citizens who no longer just take orders & instructions blindly, but will cooperate & even contribute to the PDRM’s activities if given the right reasons & causes.
  • DSP Ong was very patient, polite but determined to inform us that what we have been doing is illegal….. we, in return, wish to clarify on the areas of laws relevant & the reasons to why it is so… as we have our strong argument to believe otherwise.
  • etc etc…
  • delCapo would like to say here that I was honoured to have that discussion with DSP Ong. Thank you sir for your time.

delCapo comes to this conclusion – We need to really try & clarify our legal position once & for all.

The officers sent to meet us weekly are enforcers of the laws under specific instructions and are not in any position to agree with our arguments. And judging from this week…. they are forceful & determined but yet professional & restrained. No more the 9-11 type of brutality as it seems.

Peace & common sense has prevailed….. & delCapo expresses thanks to them.

But until told otherwise by higher authorities… they have to try & stop us every week. Period.

Maybe…. we owe it to ourselves, after 17 weeks of mostly peaceful & eventlful PJ candle vigil sessions…. to take that step forward…

It’s part of our rights too, to be legally recognised that we are NOT wrong. No? (hmm… does that make sense??)

Maybe, just maybe…. we owe a little to the uniformed & SB officers too…. to get clarity on our legality (may it be the head of the force, the courts, the state assembly or the parliament) so we are no longer on “opposite sides” every Sunday (i can see some bullets from my fellow vigillers coming for me head…hahaha)…. maybe some of the officers would like to support our cause & can’t do it in the open now due to “job restrictions”.

BUT, here’s a note to the Home minister, CPO, OCPD, DSBs (those reading pls relay the message… again)…. we are NOT a bunch of blind, brainless rebels or anti-establishement trouble makers. This is a gathering of educated, informed, peaceful minded people who believe in decency of humanity & rights.

We are NOT here blindly following some sort of cult to do things …. nor are we going to blindly follow instructions to stop, if we have reasons to believe we are acting within our constitutional & legal rights. Convince us.

Awrite my fellow Anak-anak Bangsa Malaysia… fellow viggilers & supporters of our causes… Lets try and push for that official clarification…..it may take a while to get there… but lets get going…

meanwhile…. see all of you next week & every other week…. same time, same place …. dun forget your candles & your friends =]

peace!

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14 Responses to “010209 PJ Candle light vigil – sbotted.”


  1. February 3, 2009 at 1:47 am

    Thanks for the update!

  2. February 3, 2009 at 3:06 am

    I also had a long chat with DSP Ong and have a lot to reflect and study. In a nutshell, DSP Ong explained that our country still needs ISA for national security reasons (against foreign invasion) and agreed it should not be abused by politicians. We said a short prayer together before I left – for peace and harmony, for wisdom and clarity to prevail and for everyone to do the right thing for the sake of our country and our children.

    Or perhaps we change the tagline to “Stop Abusing ISA” and continue the vigils till the balance of 46 ISA detainees are released or get a fair hearing?

    Question, has the ISA been updated to reflect this national security objective (since the time it was implemented to stop communist insurgents)? Could someone who have thoroughly read the Act enlighten us?

    Then again, I personally stand for this…

    1. Every person has the right to a fair hearing and should be deemed innocent unless proven guilty.
    2. Detention without charge and with no recourse to defence or appeal is a violation of a basic human right and repungnant to all religious doctrines.
    3. Too much power is concentrated in too few hands without any check and balance.
    4. The ISA has been abused all too often for political persecution under the guise of National Security.
    5. In the 21st century, there should be no room for such an archaic and repressive law.

    As stated in the Cause: Stop Fascism, Abolish ISA, Free All Detainees at http://apps.facebook.com/causes/120596?m=cc366e79&recruiter_id=14355129

    I’d like to ask the politicians, the authorities, PDRM, FRU and everyone on whichever side… if YOUR family member or loved one is detained without any recourse to defence, what would you do?

  3. February 3, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    “It will not do to cling to the cause and wish the result away.
    Reality does not play mind games.
    What is more, to anesthetize the mind in order to abort what comes to birth
    when wrong ideas are conceived and borne in the womb of culture,
    will only kill the very life-giving force of the nation that nurtures the idea.”
    – Ravi Zacharias
    ===============================
    It’s sad, and I find it strange that some of you guys have changed your stance from “No ISA” to “Stop Abusing The ISA”, after just one conversation with a “security personnel”.
    There is however a certain level of “ambivalence”, I notice.
    Maybe it was the “convincing arguments” brought about in the discussions with DSP Ong …. and the fact that he has managed to impress his ignorance upon others quite well, based on the “fear” factors which are used to justify it. Contrary to what many believe, it isn’t the batons and bullets that is their greatest weapon against the people – It is this “fear factor”!

    Believe me – I understand those sentiments quite well, for I once belonged to that boat. However, after an online “debate” with RPK, months of thought and much writing to articulate them, the “spins” and feeble excuses (not “reasons”, okay) from the “security personnel”/politicians (and staged events of the past) don’t convince me – not one bit, that it is necessary!
    What we need is education and accountability – not laws to “keep the peace”. Without the former, we end up with goons to fill in the places of intellectuals who should be running the country. What we are experiencing today in Malaysia is the result of “anti-intellectualism” that has been in practise since the 80s, and I’ll bet on it that 75% of the lawmakers in office don’t know the Federal Constitution.
    It is for this very reason that we see the current crop of leaders who shamelessly flout the Federal Constitution with impunity, and find supporters among rakyat……………..

    The issue here isn’t just the ISA, actually – it also encompasses the Police Act, which is unconstitutional and violates the tenets of fundamental human rights.
    There will be plenty of arguments for the “ISA” based on speculation & presumption. DSP Ong must definitely be an intelligent man – wish I had the opportunity to spend some time with him the other day.
    To those who are “ambivalent”, I take it that you guys have read the Federal Constitution and the ISA 1960/ Police Act 1967 in full against the backdrop of Universal Declaration of Human Rights ……
    Maybe when somebody is arrested for eating “kuaci” at Lotus – an act that might be deemed a “threat to national seciruty” for whatever reason by our HM, you might understand that it is a law that begs to be abused.

  4. February 3, 2009 at 3:04 pm

    In our country not too long ago there was a hype about good corporate governance not only in the private sector but also in the public sector. The leaders who championed for this so-call “governance”…are they just lip-service? If really the tenets of good governance is being practised…surely we would not be experience corruption, abuse of powers…not to mention the temptation by people to lead a life of crime arising from the consequences of poor governance.If we are now in a stage where level of confidence is at an all-time low on the powers that be…why not call for snap elections with the approval of the One above in our Constitution. LET THE PEOPLE VOTE FOR THE LEADER OF THEIR CHOICE. It could be the current leaders or the opposition. Be prepared to face victory or defeat. Face like a Man (or Woman). Don’t la be kiasi or kiasu. Unless the opportunity cost of defeat is unacceptable to those who favor evil gains.

  5. 5 Nanda
    February 3, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    Pat Lu,

    I disagree with the changing of tagline and I also disagree with any notion that states our country needs ISA.

    I find it ironic that while the DSP agreed that the ISA should not be abused, he did not have any qualms in abusing the Police Act and infringing on our rights at Lotus.

  6. 6 delcapo
    February 3, 2009 at 3:47 pm

    Pat… I am with nanda on this.
    My stance to take initiatives to bring our stance to the authorities… with intelligent & forceful dialodues + reasons…. but not to back down on our stand. Not one bit…. “No to ISA” & also our constitutional rights to assembly… for any causes we believe in.

    Cruzeiro… nice comments!
    I was close to convincing DSP Ong to see that we are NOT opposition supporters or political machinery… short of asking him :
    “what IF PR takes government… & a fanatic new Home Minister, who had previously been detained, decided to abuse the ISA & round up politicians, CPOs, OCPDs DSPs to Kamunting…
    will that be ok?…
    We believe that we will still hold Anti-ISA demos & vigils for these new detainees, regardless of whther we like tham or not…. THAT’s the difference between a biased political movement & one like ours – by genuine Anak Bangsa Malaysia who believe in fighting for justice & rights”

  7. 7 farida
    February 3, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    Pat, Nanda and Cruzeiro,

    In my dialogue with DSP Ong, I said we have the right to freedom of assembly and he said our country is not ready for it!

  8. February 3, 2009 at 6:41 pm

    farida…don’t u see DSP Ong is telling you that you are not intellectual enough…or that he or others ARE intellectual and you are not.

  9. 9 sanjiun
    February 3, 2009 at 9:11 pm

    I love what you wrote, Danny.
    I believe there are still good police in PDRM.

    ISA is a temptation.
    No matter which political party form govt in future… They are still human, not Saints. We cannot ensure them to be able to resist such a temptation.
    For the sake of our future, ISA must go!

  10. 10 kkitsam
    February 3, 2009 at 9:22 pm

    Dear Pat, we have enough laws to deal with any situation. In any case if we lack one, our parliamentarians can made a new one. The ISA had long been used for political reasons, from Operasi Lalang 1987 till now. Also, if i’m not mistaken, NONE of the detainees were charged in the court of law, this means NONE were proven to be have breach the law.
    ISA for foreign invasion? This is a big joke, why not next Sunday asked DSP Ong again, of all the ISA detainees, which were foreign threats? Another funny thing is, we were there expressing our feeling against the ISA, freedom of expression. Just because we disagree doesn’t mean the police have the rights to chased us out. However, i think the dialogue with DSP is a good one, at least we have the chance to exchange thoughts rather than they just follow orders without thinking. They will mos likely interupting us every week but deep down in them we don’t really know whether they agree with us.

  11. 11 Nobody
    February 20, 2009 at 7:58 pm

    Honestly I think ISA should be reviewed first rather than abolished. It should be reviewed in the aspect of the way detainees are detained and treated under detention. Also in such a way that ISA cannot be abused by a few individuals in their self interest.

    ISA is considered draconian mainly because of inhumane treatment of detainees such as solidarity confinement and torture.

    Here’s my fancy ideas about treatment of detainees:

    1. First the detainees should be allowed lawyer assistance and family members must be informed within 24 hours.

    2. Since detainees are detained without evidence and trial, they should not be treat like usual criminals. They should be kept in a decent decent confinement area such as apartments in a confined area. Each detainee should be kept in an apartment unit with all normal facilities such as water, electricity, TV, phones and computer internet etc. Out going calls and internet access would be monitored and limited off course.

    3. They should be given decent normal food like those available to average people outside since they are not common criminals awaiting trials.

    4. Family members allowed visitation daily into the apartment at certain hours.

    5. Detainees allowed out of the apartment at certain hours daily for sports and recreation within the confined compound. Facilities should be available of course.

    6. Let others contribute more ideas.

    In other words, the detainees are more like put under house arrests in a comfortable environment. Since the idea of ISA is to remove threat to national security, the purpose can be accomplished.

    Also if the above treatment is afforded to detainees, ISA will not seem draconian and dreadful. Most detainees would gladly prefer to stay in and would not want to come out. Some would even deliberately want to be detained. 😉

    Not only that the authorities would be hesitant to impose the act unnecessarily as it is very costly. In that way abuse of ISA can be reduced effectively.

    As to how to prevent theabuse of ISA by few individuals in the area of enforcement I have no ideas.

  12. November 24, 2009 at 5:58 pm

    Wow loved reading your post. I submitted your feed to my blogreader.


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